By: John Kaster
Abstract: Read the chat log and listen to the replay of the live audio interview with the ECO team on the new features of ECO
Listen to the audio replay.
This is a log of the chat room during the live audio chat from February 1, 2005 on
Delphi 2005 with the ECO Team. They discuss ECO support in Delphi 2005.
Note: This log is only the chat room
transcript. There is much additional information covered in the audio
replay that is not available in this chat log. For all previous and
upcoming live chats, see http://bdntv.borland.com/chat.html.
aohlsson: Feel free to ask any ECO related questions using the
/ask command or the "ask" button.
jkaster inserts the following link: http://www.borland.com/delphi/architect/eco/
jkaster: additional information on ECO
jkaster inserts the following link: http://bdn.borland.com/delphi/programming/oodesign/0,1420,50002,00.html
jkaster: various articles and animations on ECO
jkaster inserts the following link: http://blogs.borland.com/team/eco
jkaster: eco team blogs
jkaster: mrpmorris: "Many people in the newsgroups have
been asking about a Delphi 2005 release of Bold. Do Borland have a
timeframe for releasing it?" - We do have a prototype of
Bold working in Delphi 2005. We still have to resolve how to make that
jkaster: Delphi64: "Can you speak to your evaluations of
ECO performance? Does it scale well in "high-traffic"
scenarios. Say, internet related activities, where there might be many
"hits" on the database?" - We have been doing
some performance measurements, but nothing conclusive yet.
jkaster inserts the following link: http://www.howtodothings.com
This is an ASP.NET web site powered by ECO 2
jkaster: jthurman: "I found the initial learning curve
for ECO to be very steep, and the documentation less than helpful. Pete
had to explain things to me to get me started. Do you intend to provide
resources to help ECO neophytes get started?" - yes, as
much as we can
jkaster: JoeH: "How much of the OCL does ECO2 implement
?" - OCL is a query language, or expression language, on
top of UML models. It's a navigational language. Most of the OCL
spec is implemented. There are things in OCL 2 (we were on the design
committee for that specification) that have not been implemented yet.
But 85 - 90% of the spec has been covered.
jkaster: LizR: "are you planning to make more tutorials
on how to use eco, and as suggested in the news groups with the avi
movies of you guys doing things so we can watch and learn?" -
jkaster: davidi: "If it wasn't already asked - how
would the team suggest that D7/Bold apps be migrated to ECO?"
- It's not easy. There are things that can be migrated easily,
such as the model. There are some newsgroup posts about a tool that
helps with doing this. When the application needs to be ported, a lot
of the business logic would translate fairly well, but the framework is
very different in ECO when compared to Bold.
jkaster: LizR: "Is there any hope you will make an ECO
version for win32 so for those of us who havent dabbled or dont need to
dabble will be able to use even some of the functionality ?" -
The current ECO implementation uses quite a lot of the features of
.NET. Porting it to Win32 would require a lot of changes.
jkaster: JoeH: "Can asp.net 'shadow copying' be
safely used with eco2 ?" - I don't know enough about
this to answer it well.
jkaster: RobLove: "Any plans to implement a OCL Browser
against your current model/db? (Similar to SQL Window for Database
Access)" - yes, that's something the ECO space debugger
jkaster: davidi: "Will ECO support Microsoft's
announced "ObjectSpace" Does ObjectSpace==EcoSpace?"
- First of all, ObjectSpace has been pushed into the future for
several years. It's primarily an O/R mapper. ECO does more than
jkaster: mrpmorris: "Are there any plans to make the
EcoServices etc more accessible to third party developers?" -
yes and no. We're always trying to improve the architecture for
making things more accessible.
jkaster: jthurman: "I know there are a couple of
third-party tools for ECO. Is there a reasonably comprehensive list of
them anywhere?" - Not that I know of. But that's
something we should do.
jkaster: mrpmorris: "Any plans to release a tool for
quickly testing models, like the product BoldSoft used to have named
"ModelRun"?" - No current plans for this, but
there are features of the ECO framework that can do this.
jkaster: JoeH: "What, if any, features are unavailable
using an ECO2 persistence db mapper instead of a bdp driver ?"
- There are a couple things you can't do if you write your own
persistence mapper. You can't use the design-time support for
create or evolve database, but you can still do it at runtime.
jkaster: jthurman: "speaking of which, how WOULD one
connect an ECO model to MySQL?" - Jonas: One would read my
article on how to do it.
jkaster inserts the link http://homepages.borland.com/ecoteam/johogstrom/CustomPMapper/
jkaster: jkaster: "Any tips for building an ECO ASP.NET
application that handles large sets of data?" - The first
handle for selecting data should be an OclPSHandleto
limit your selection set.
jkaster: CraigF: "If/when there is Bold for D2005 will
there be a means to share the Bold model with ECO .NET?" -
Other than what we've already discussed, no.
jkaster: mrpmorris: "Is there any way to tell the
EcoSpace to unload objects if they haven't been used for X
minutes?" - Currently, no
jkaster: I'll fix errors in transcript later
jkaster: Delphi64: "Can you talk about your future plans
for ECO?" - We are looking into more O/R mapping
functionality. We're looking at .NET 2.0. We're looking at UML
jkaster: livechat: "What is the final ECO number
currently on the roadmap? ECO-IV?" - From our point of you,
we're just looking at technical capabilities, not release
Welcome to the moderated Borland Community Chat!
You are allowed to speak freely with everyone in this lower window. In
the upper window you'll find all messages written by moderators and
mrpmorris: Hi guys
RobLove: Hi Peter
RobLove: Oh and you up top too ;-)
LizKimber: ok thats a bit better.. not much :)
mrpmorris: Hi Jan
LizR: Interesting choice of music
LizR: :) if its playing elvis.. Im there
jthurman: Hey Pete. I figured you'd be here. :)
mrpmorris: Well, you know, just keeping up the numbers :)
jthurman: Of course
jonneve: Hi all
mrpmorris: I'm really quite bored of those Delphi 64 bit
compiler threads on the newsgroups
jthurman: I'm just here for the music.
jthurman: Hey Robert.
mrpmorris: It's a bit like going on holiday in your car and
having children in the back repeatedly saying "Are we there
LizR: Me too those 64bit ones have gone on a while
LizR: hehe, Id trade you for a dog who whines from the instant
you put your coat/shoes on
mrpmorris: I'd like to see ECO for Visual Studio :)
JoeH: nice job Pete on your ECO website
jthurman: "Good afternoon, good evening, and good
LizR: sounds good from the UK :)
jthurman: Anders: Sounds fine in Illinois.
RobLove: Utah is choppy but that is network problems here
mrpmorris: Love OOP, hate RDBMS, use ECO :)
mrpmorris: I have 10 EcoSpaces in my pool on
www.HowToDoThings.com - they all stay in sync just fine
mrpmorris: Is he dead? :)
LizR: did he fall off the chair?
mrpmorris: Slippery wooden floors :)
Delphi64: big strapping lads. little chairs
JoeH: Pete do you also use the mapper pooling ?
LizR: I had nice man trying to sell me food at the door so I
missed a fair bit
mrpmorris: Joe yes
mrpmorris: ASP.NET is single-process so I only needed to set
SyncActive = true
jthurman: Pete made it into the top frame! :)
mrpmorris polishes his knuckles :)
mrpmorris: 125,000 page hits in Jan for howtodothings.com
JoeH: i am still low on the steep learning curve :)
jthurman: There needs to be "I just clicked 'New ECO
Application,' now what?" on BDN.
mrpmorris: ECO is doing just fine :)
jesper: I am!
LizR: There needs to be a "Hmm my " New eco
application" option is missing how in blazes do I get it back
mrpmorris: The Grid handler code in ASP.NET was new
mrpmorris: Hi Jesper
jesper: Hiya dudes. I'm not on audio, though.
jthurman: ECOSpace debugger -> neat!
mrpmorris: You type out what is new, David I can read it out
JoeH: jesper much thanks to you and Jonas for helping NexusDb
get a db mapper going :)
jesper: You're welcome. I heard you're releasing it in
JoeH: i am just a user - but yes they are
jesper: Ocl specs:
mrpmorris: Didn't you guys write the OCL spec?
JoeH: "Object Constraint Language" by Warmer &
Kleppe is helping me figure all this out :)
Editor's note: This is either this book or that one (I think)
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