By: John Kaster
Abstract: Read the chat log and listen to the live audio interview with Eli Boling
Listen to the audio replay.
This is a log of the chat room during the live audio chat from February 1, 2005 on
the future of C++Builder with Eli Boling. Eli discusses the work
under way for the C++ personality for the next release of Delphi.
Note: This log is only the chat room
transcript. There is much additional information covered in the audio
replay that is not available in this chat log. For all previous and
upcoming live chats, see http://bdntv.borland.com/chat.html.
aohlsson: Please use "/ask" to ask
jkaster inserts the following link: http://qc.borland.com
jkaster: See that URL for QualityCentral. That's your
primary feedback mechanism to Borland R&D
jkaster: that helps the R&D teams prioritize bug
fixes for the product releases
jkaster: The C++ team is focused on this being a very
high quality release for C++
jkaster: nux: "will there be a new c++
compiler / linker? Will it be 100% Ansi C compliant? All boost
libraries to compile? Even Spirit and crypto++?" -
We've done some work on conformance for Boost and for ACE.
We're going to specifically target boost and some customer
complaints. We won't be 100% ANSI compliant
jkaster: mitov: "Will we see updated more
ANSI compatible C++ compiler?" - We'll continue to work
on specific customer complaints standing in the way of specific library
jkaster: casterle: "Did I hear you
mentioning refactoring?" - Yup, we're spending a
considerable block of R&D time toward refactoring for this release.
We're aiming high and will have a better list later. Basic
refactorings such as rename will be first, other refactorings that are
in the current Delphi 2005 release, and specific C++ refactorings. C++
refactorings are more difficult than some other languages.
jkaster: Atmapuri: "Any plans to add
support for SSE2, 64 bit, mixed code compiler for .NET?" -
In this release, we're not going to be doing any mixed code
compilation for .NET, or 64-bit. SSE2 we'll support with inline
jkaster: nux: "What about kylix and kylix
c++? When will the official cummunity update for new linux
distrubutions be release?" - We've had some internal
discussions about this, but no formal plans yet.
jkaster: RichardK: "Do you already have a
release date for C++BuilderX?" - Those products will be
ready when they're ready. If you're interested in testing,
aohlsson inserts the following link: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org
jkaster: DavidS: "Will the new C++
Identity be based on the existing BCB compiler / linker?" -
It's had a lot of revisions since then. It's not a ground up
new compiler and linker, but it's had lots of changes since it was
aohlsson: casterle: "When will you be
ready for beta testers? How will I know if I haven't been accepted,
or if the beta hasn't started yet?" - As previous one.
Please send email to email@example.com
jkaster: RaphNeve: "Will we see some real
boosts in C++ Builder compile time?" - You're not going
to see a huge boost in compile time, but Code Insight times should be
jkaster: casterle: "what about the
compiler generating faster code?" - The focus on this
release is more language conformance and IDE features rather than code
jkaster: drbob42: "are we talking about
C++Builder in the Delphi 2005 IDE, or the next version of Delphi
IDE??" - It's not in the 2005 IDE itself, but the next
IDE is not radically different than that. We're building on that
one. Our plan is to have the C++ be available at the time of the next
jkaster: RichardK: "Will there be a free
personal edition for C++BuilderX?" - Too early to say
jkaster: mitov: "Can we expect BCB to
accept VC++ COFF libraries?" - Not any more than we
currently support. We'll make some bug fixes to utilities that do
jkaster: djones: "What about upgrade
pricing for C++Builder users? Will we take a big hit on price to get
the Delphi/BCB IDE?" - can't say yet
jkaster: ozelaya: "is there any work on to
improve code completion and parameters speed on C++ Builder" -
that will be improved
jkaster inserts the following link http://bdn.borland.com/article/0,1410,32862,00.html
Watch that BDNtv episode for a sample of the performance
jkaster: casterle: "Is 100% ANSI C++
compliance your ultimate goal?" - That would be a very
desirable thing for us
jkaster: gambit47: "will COM support be improved?
an actual working and usable Type Library editor? etc. BCB6 COM support
is not as good as BCB5 support, which is itself lacking
anyway." - We're definitely looking at improving the
type library support
jkaster: gambit47: "will TService be updated?
BCB's version of TService has not had a single code update since
BCB4. Services have many new features in Win2K/XP/2K3 that TService
cannot utilize" - I don't know the answer to that one.
Make sure it's in QualityCentral
jkaster: casterle: "Are you going to
improve the debugger?" - We're going to spend some time
doing bug fixes on this, and medium term wishlist items such as better
STL container inspection. Definitely things we want to do.
jkaster: derbas: "Will any work be done to
allow BCB components to be used in Delphi?" - It's not
currently on our list of things we're likely to pull off.
jkaster: AlisdairM: "will there be any
support for ISO library TR1" - not currently planned
jkaster: gambit47: "will BCB6 get any updates
before the new C++ personality is released?" - probably
not. We've put out 4 updates to BCB6 already. Right now, our
focus is getting this pretty large array of new features into the next
jkaster: RonSawyer: "/ask: Perhaps this is
out of place, but: Will these tools ever support CE or Pocket
PC" - the most likely solution to that is going toward
managed C++ and CF. That's a long term outlook.
jkaster: DavidS: "There are some bugs in
the compiler / linker that exist in both BCB5 and 6. Will bug reports
to QC regarding BCB5 be considered?" - We're going to
take anything we can find in QC that applies to the current tools
jkaster: lsiefert: "How about code
folding?" - that's on the list to do
jkaster: RonSawyer: " How will Longhorn
impact the development tools? Will Delphi/Builder/etc work with
Longhorn?" - yes. We'd be pretty silly if we
didn't do that.
jkaster: AlisdairM: "any improvement for
automated project builds - batch file support was actually dropped from
Delphi 2005" - yes, we're taking a hard look at
jkaster: DamonC: "Will we get a C++-tuned
project manager?" - we have a wide array of features
customers have asked for over time, like pre and post build steps,
source pools, build configurations, named option sets, etc. all these
features are things we're looking at to see which we can most
aohlsson: There's a 30 second lag in the audio, so
answers may appear written here before you hear them.
jkaster: AndrueC: "will there be an option
to disable debugging into standard headers like the STL?" -
It's not actually currently a separate requirement in CaliberRM.
We can certainly look at that.
jkaster inserts the link http://www.borland.com/caliber/
We use CaliberRM to track product feature requirements
jkaster: ozelaya: "Is there going to be a
option to just buy the C++ Builder Personality" - stay
tuned to when we formally announce the next version of the
aohlsson: The 30 second delay is simply a function of
streaming to a server, and you getting the stream off of it. It's
probably built-in buffering so that hickups are eliminated as much as
jkaster: derbas: "Will anything be done to
reduce executable size?" - Outside of including the
dinkumware STL, we don't have anything on the plate right now
jkaster: derbas: "Any improvement in
converting projects to new version -- this has always been
problematic." - yes, we'll work on that
jkaster: drbob42: "when we see the C++Builder
personality in the Delphi (BDS) IDE, will that mean a Win32 or a .NET
C++ personality? (or both? ;-)" - additional work will
happen for .NET after this Win32-supporting release
jkaster: frasersof: "will the next
C++builder be .NET like Delphi 2005?" - the IDE is
going to be the same, with enhancements, that we shipped for Delphi
jkaster: antivari: "What will be the final
replacement for QReport" - Crystal Reports and Rave
jkaster: DamonC: "Any plans to improve the
math performance of compiled code?" - notin this
jkaster: derbas: "Is any work being done
to fix Quality Central, or will we have endless beta...?" -
in 1999, we said that all of BDN would be constantly in
jkaster: antivari: "will the overall
project management be easier, like changing the file
names/paths/classes from the IDE?" - yes, we're
going to spend a fair amount of time improving options
jkaster: antivari: "Will the TImage be
enriched with some new image formats?" - That's a
question for the VCL team
jkaster: nux: "does borland take Linux
serious? should we rather try Kylix or rather vcl.net through
mono" - in the world of Linux, we continue to try to figure
out how to make a business of producing tools for Linux. Right now,
we're focusing on the Kylix community project, and FreeClx.
jkaster inserts the following link: http://freeclx.sourceforge.net
jkaster: drbob42: "are you considering to include
IntraWeb for C++Builder?" - yes, that certainly
could work since the VCL designer will work with C++
jkaster: derbas: "Any work being done to
allow Borland C++ products to be used for drivers, like in the old days
<G>?" - yes, we'll do work on this to make
sure you can actually do this
jkaster: antivari: "Will the docking
system finaly be easy to implement?" - anotherVCL
jkaster: DamonC: "Will we get GDI+
support? (Which natively supports other image formats.)" -
you'll get the native support through C++, but not sure
about additional VCL wrappers for it
jkaster: gambit47: "up-todate API headers and
libraries?" - yes!
jkaster: casterle: "The help in D2005 is
lacking. Will this be improved when the BDS w/BCB is
released?" - we're looking at XML documenation
generation for C++ as well. this will improve
Watch for a chat on the documentation for Delphi 2005. That information
jkaster inserts the link http://bdntv.borland.com/chat.html
jkaster: cviavatte: "are You considering
to include a Profile for C++ personality?" - ifwe do
anything for a profiler, it will be via a bundle, such as VTune or
something. That's a product management decision
jkaster: JimDodd: "Will the examples
provided with Builder be updated?" - yes
jkaster: AlisdairM: "how far has Delphi
changed since Delphi6, placing additional requirement for C++
support?" - the changes that have been made to
Delphi, such as namespace support, but that shouldn't affect the
C++ interfaces as well. The enumerator support is all internal.
jkaster: AlisdairM: "Will CodeGuard be
supported?" - We're looking at it.
jkaster: derbas: "Has memory management
been improved (in relation to BCB5)?" - We haven't
gotten any big changes there right now.
jkaster: casterle: "When BCB is included
in BDS, will this make 3rd party component development
easier?" - Davidi: Having one environment that's
the same in all its features for 4 different languages should
definitely make this easier.
jkaster: JimDodd: "Four languages? Delphi,
C#, C++ and Java?" - that'sjust counting Delphi
(native) and (.NET) as two
jkaster: DavidS: "I noticed some memory
leaks in the VCL in BCB5/6. Will that be improved?" -
report them in QualityCentral
jkaster: roddy: "Will the DFM file formats
be broadly similar to BCB5/6?" - yes
jkaster: henningd: "Will be full support
for the make tool be part of the next BCB generation?" -
yes. there will still be command-line compilers and so on. We
may support exporting to make file
jkaster: DamonC: "Will we still need
Delphi source code to use Delphi components in BCB?" -
jkaster: kgc: "Any thoughts about
supporting distributed compiling for large products (a la distcc)? Or
related project management improvements?" - not
currently on the plans
davidi: djones: "This is the kind of
interaction we desperately needed from Borland. Thank you." -
keep feeding back to us and we'll continue the conversations.
jkaster: AlisdairM: "will there be support
for CVS in the IDE (I am presuming StarTeam!)" -
yes, through SCC API
jkaster: djones: "Will there still be a
BPR2MAK tool, even if the IDE doesn't export make files?"
- I don't know, but I'll take a look
jkaster: Milsoft: "Will CORBA be supported
in the new ide" - yes, absolutely
jkaster: oliverb: "Will there be better
support for mixed language programming" - we're not
doing any specific features for mixed language programming except for
project management level features
jkaster: AlisdairM: "will there be Borland
Together support for UML?" - We're looking at that for
the modeling part of the product. We don't know what degree of
integration we'll get there yet
jkaster: AlisdairM: "is there anything we
as the community can do to help Borland deliver a high quality
product?" - put things into QC, give us really good
examples that show what the problem is, ask to field test, then really
beat on the product
jkaster: Milsoft: "Will we have one ide
where we can use C++ and C#" - that's our goal. Delphi,
C++, and C# development in one IDE
jkaster: nux: "why not make a babelcode to
convert c++ builder to c#" - After CodeDOM support for C++
is available, this is feasible
jkaster: derbas: "Has Borland not yet
learned that "when it's ready" isn't a viable answer
anymore?" - We're trying to tell you as much as we can
about the development we're doing. The challenge of exact dates is
a challenge we always have. We will strive to hit any dates we
jkaster: djones: "Where you've said,
"we'll look into it", when/where will we be see the
eventual answers? Hopefully, we don't have to wait until a release
to get the answer!" - We'll update you whenever we
jkaster: DamonC: "Will there be
BCB-specific tracks at this year's BorCon?" -
Davidi: yes, we'll cover C++. I still don't have a
date, but we're getting very close to announcing a date and
location, in the Q4 timeframe.
jkaster: AlisdairM: "will licensing be
very different from BCB6?" - It will (probably) be the
named user licensing we have today
jkaster: JimDodd: "Where are the blogs for
the C++ team?" - DevRel will get the C++ team
members to start or extend their blogging
jkaster inserts the following link: http://blogs.borland.com
jkaster: antivari: "Can we expect some
more Tools (besides Image Editor, DBExplorer, ...) to be included in
the product?" - noplans to expand the tools unless
it's a third paty bundle
aohlsson: casterle: "Will you announce the
blogs in the nontech newsgroup?" - Yes
jkaster: AlisdairM: "can we split IDE
options/history out of the project files, so source control is
easier" - huh. yeah, I see what he's saying. Not
currently planned, but I'll talk to the product manager guys about
jkaster: pgustav: "This may have been
asked (joining late), but will be Delphi VCLs be allowed to used by C++
Develoers. Inversely will (one day) C++ VCLs (for .nET) be able to be
used by Delphi Devs" - please listen to the replay for this
answer. All VCL updates will be available to C++ customers
davidi: casterle: "How frequently can we
expect status updates and additional chats?" -
wewill talk to the C++ / Delphi / C# team and see what
schedule we can create.
jkaster: RaphNeve: "Why does BCB1 compile
/so much/ faster than BCB5 ?" - there are 2 answers
to that: 1) for starters, in BCB 5 and 6, we introduced more components
that are available for the user and standard pre-compiled headers for
those. 2) in BCB6, there is an egregious bug with a documented fix for
See http://tinyurl.com/5n74e for more information
davidi: Milsoft: "How would we purchase
C++ Builder? Would we have to purchase Delphi?" - stay
tuned for product announcements, packaging, pricing, etc as we get
closer to ship time
jkaster: BigStew: "Will the type library
importer finally be fixed in the BDS personality?" -
yes, answered already
aohlsson: AlisdairM: "will my name appear
next to all my question in the transcript, I seem to be hogging the
floor!" - Yes :)
jkaster: djones: "Where can we submit wish
list items for the new product?" - QualityCentral.
Put feature suggestions in there.
jkaster inserts the following link: http://qc.borland.com
jkaster: and solicit votes from community members
jkaster: roddy: "QC: file them for Delphi
or BCB??" - BCB
jkaster: AlisdairM: "if we want improved
image editors etc., would Borland be open to community
submissions?" - yes, definitely. Troy Kitch is the product
jkaster: DamonC: "Will editor settings
(e.g., indent spacing) be project-specific as in BCBX?" -
thiswould be a good IDE request for C++Builder
jkaster: nux: "where can i find the docs
for: "in BCB6, there is an egregious bug with a documented fix for
this"" - we'll add the URL to the transcript
aohlsson: DamonC: "Thanks guys--this chat
is much appreciated!!!" - Thanks for tuning in!
jkaster: casterle: "Will the component
palette include wildcard searches?" - not sure
jkaster: DavidS: "I like to mention that I
really appreciate your focus on quality for the next release. I think
BCB5/6 is still a great product except some critical bugs in the
current linker / compiler." - thanks very much
jkaster: AlisdairM: "So where is Bruneau
hiding?" - He's working!
davidi: kgc: "This may be too
forward-looking, but what kind of tools might come out of the TeraQuest
acquisition?" - We will try to schedule audio chats with
the TeraQuest team as soon as possible.
jkaster: roddy: "Will delphi projects now
be able to easily use C libraries such as freetype?" - send
me email to get this question answered
Welcome to the moderated Borland Community Chat!
You are allowed to speak freely with everyone in this lower window. In
the upper window you'll find all messages written by moderators and
jthurman: Popular place to be.
frasersof: hi mike #1
jthurman: That was fun.
LoriOlson: who picked elvis? jkaster: I did!
frasersof: elvis(some one who is older than me)
oliverb: Elvis is moderating when he finishes this
casterle: I just heard a mike check a moment
ago...didn't sound like Elvis
AndrueC: I've never been a fan of Elvis but it beats
the Jazz we used to get on telephone 'hold' years ago :)
frasersof: NTL does Shakatak - not too bad
mitov: Hi David!
casterle: This music's gonna put me to sleep
cviavatte: I live in Italy, my date is 01 February, and
my time is 20.19 (19.19GMT): I want discuss the C++Builder
oliverb: Elvis didn't die, he wrote C++ Builder
drbob42: Elvis has left the building...
DavidS: Did he?
ozelaya: i dont mind listening to elvis before some good
news on C++ Builder...lol
MikeMarge: with there be an audio feed too?
cviavatte: C++Builder Live Audio Chat with Eli Boling
Tuesday, February 1, 2005, 11:15AM PST (1915Z)
cviavatte: where is Eli Boling?
oliverb: Is it Eli or Elivs?
cviavatte: Ok, hi Eli
mitov: Will we see updated more ANSI compatible C++
bmcgee: mitov: use the ASK button
gambit47: hi damon
DamonC: Hi Gambit!
doychin: hi mitov. Nice to see another Bulgarian here
mitov: Well, I mean I have been around for few years
doychin: I'm talking about the chats ;-)
doychin: I know you from the BCB newsgroups
mitov: I was listening to the Delphi 2005, but didn't
H^2: what is the link for the audio feed?
frasersof: in the VIP lounge above
antivari: I havent't tried any chat for 5 years. I
hope I'll see this line when I press enter
doychin: use ask button to ask questions ;-)
doychin: or put /ask before the text of the question
AlisdairM: Rats, sent all my questions to the wrong chat
RaphNeve: loud and clear over in France !!
AlisdairM: Complaints in NGs that people can't get
in, I will try to forward questions
jkaster: Thanks, Alisdair!
jthurman2: The open letter seemed to leave it open to go either
mitov: I have a COFF to BCB utility developed. Are you
jthurman2: "When it's ready" (tm)
mitov: I am using the utility and I am willing to share
the code and experience with Borland!
RonSawyer: I can get in here AlisdairM, but cannot log
onto the media
H^2: same here
DamonC: Will there be an audio recording?
JimDodd: There has been for other audio feeds.
DamonC: OK, thanks
RonSawyer: How long does it usually take for an answer? I
have asked 3 questions and not seen one yet
RaphNeve: Wow, that /will/ be good !
RaphNeve: (refering to using Delphi components)
RonSawyer: There's one
RonSawyer: But my first one was skipped
cviavatte: The old BCB5 work in Longhorn?
RaphNeve: good question!
gambit47: there does seem to be a lit of a lag between the time
a question is asked and when it is actually answered
RonSawyer: Yeah, and I guess that is understandable
oliverb: WIll there be a migration path for C++ code from
Windows to C++ BUilder X
teechart: 30 second ! Ah, that's why !
cviavatte: If C++Builder personality is ready in 2007, I
must work in my BCB5: it start in Longhorn?
drbob42: Who's talking about 2007?
drbob42: hi oblong!
DavidS: I think there are 3rd party components using /
DavidS: like DevExpress.com
cviavatte: Can the people view a beta version of C++
personality? (like Bravo before the BCB 1)
LoriOlson: pvcs is now perforce, john
DavidS: @AlisdairM: I don't know anything about SCC
API. Do you think it'll be easy to use CVS in the IDE?
doychin: there is SCC modules for CVS so you just need
such module which will allow you to integrate CVS into Delphi IDE
AlisdairM: @DavidS: No idea myself, was hoping it would
ship in the box <g>
LoriOlson: doychin, where do you find SCC modules for
oliverb: TortiseCVS integrates CVS at the folder level of
Windows aking it transparent to all compilers
roddy: TortoiseSVN for subversion is really
DavidS: Well I still prefer WinCVS and CVSNT...
oliverb: TortiseCVS is the best for Windows because it is
language transparent and compatible with all languages
teechart: TeamCoherence is great
gambit47: I tried to use TortoiseCVS once, and had problems with
gambit47: I prefer TC as well
DavidS: I had them, too.
LoriOlson: i've used the TortoiseCVS and SVN clients
and they are excellent, but i prefer IDE integration for my VCS.
gambit47: TC integrates with the BCB IDE
drbob42: announcing BorCOn's date in Q4? Oh wait, BorCon
itself will be in Q4 ;-)
nux: yes, we need dates - we have clients to keep happy -
like we are borlands client
doychin inserts the following link: http://www.pushok.com/soft_cvs_proxy.php
AlisdairM: Thanks Anders ;,)
drbob42: @cvivatte: I don't know what you mean: I expect the
next release *this* year... 2005. (personally)
RaphNeve: thanks for the chat!
nux: thanks borland - you make me rich with your dev
cviavatte: Release, release, release
JimDodd: Thank you, Borland.
AlisdairM: <G> Thanks John
RaphNeve: goodbye one & all
AlisdairM: And thanks to all the Dev Rel team for
arranging this, very much appreciated
kgc: Thanks for doing this, guys. Now get your butts back
to work and finish this thing. ;)
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