BDNradio: The future of C++Builder with Eli Boling

By: John Kaster

Abstract: Read the chat log and listen to the live audio interview with Eli Boling

C++Builder future with Eli Boling

Listen to the audio replay.

This is a log of the chat room during the live audio chat from February 1, 2005 on the future of C++Builder with Eli Boling. Eli discusses the work under way for the C++ personality for the next release of Delphi.

Note: This log is only the chat room transcript. There is much additional information covered in the audio replay that is not available in this chat log. For all previous and upcoming live chats, see http://bdntv.borland.com/chat.html.

VIP Lounge

aohlsson: Please use "/ask" to ask questions.
jkaster inserts the following link: http://qc.borland.com
jkaster: See that URL for QualityCentral. That's your primary feedback mechanism to Borland R&D
jkaster: that helps the R&D teams prioritize bug fixes for the product releases
jkaster: The C++ team is focused on this being a very high quality release for C++

jkaster: nux: "will there be a new c++ compiler / linker? Will it be 100% Ansi C compliant? All boost libraries to compile? Even Spirit and crypto++?" - We've done some work on conformance for Boost and for ACE. We're going to specifically target boost and some customer complaints. We won't be 100% ANSI compliant

jkaster: mitov: "Will we see updated more ANSI compatible C++ compiler?" - We'll continue to work on specific customer complaints standing in the way of specific library usage.

jkaster: casterle: "Did I hear you mentioning refactoring?" - Yup, we're spending a considerable block of R&D time toward refactoring for this release. We're aiming high and will have a better list later. Basic refactorings such as rename will be first, other refactorings that are in the current Delphi 2005 release, and specific C++ refactorings. C++ refactorings are more difficult than some other languages.

jkaster: Atmapuri: "Any plans to add support for SSE2, 64 bit, mixed code compiler for .NET?" - In this release, we're not going to be doing any mixed code compilation for .NET, or 64-bit. SSE2 we'll support with inline assembler.

jkaster: nux: "What about kylix and kylix c++? When will the official cummunity update for new linux distrubutions be release?" - We've had some internal discussions about this, but no formal plans yet.

jkaster: RichardK: "Do you already have a release date for C++BuilderX?" - Those products will be ready when they're ready. If you're interested in testing, email cppbuilder@borland.com

aohlsson inserts the following link: mailto:cppbuilder@borland.com

jkaster: DavidS: "Will the new C++ Identity be based on the existing BCB compiler / linker?" - It's had a lot of revisions since then. It's not a ground up new compiler and linker, but it's had lots of changes since it was last released.

aohlsson: casterle: "When will you be ready for beta testers? How will I know if I haven't been accepted, or if the beta hasn't started yet?" - As previous one. Please send email to cppbuilder@borland.com

jkaster: RaphNeve: "Will we see some real boosts in C++ Builder compile time?" - You're not going to see a huge boost in compile time, but Code Insight times should be greatly improved.

jkaster: casterle: "what about the compiler generating faster code?" - The focus on this release is more language conformance and IDE features rather than code generation

jkaster: drbob42: "are we talking about C++Builder in the Delphi 2005 IDE, or the next version of Delphi IDE??" - It's not in the 2005 IDE itself, but the next IDE is not radically different than that. We're building on that one. Our plan is to have the C++ be available at the time of the next Delphi.

jkaster: RichardK: "Will there be a free personal edition for C++BuilderX?" - Too early to say

jkaster: mitov: "Can we expect BCB to accept VC++ COFF libraries?" - Not any more than we currently support. We'll make some bug fixes to utilities that do conversion, though.

jkaster: djones: "What about upgrade pricing for C++Builder users? Will we take a big hit on price to get the Delphi/BCB IDE?" - can't say yet

jkaster: ozelaya: "is there any work on to improve code completion and parameters speed on C++ Builder" - that will be improved
jkaster inserts the following link http://bdn.borland.com/article/0,1410,32862,00.html
Watch that BDNtv episode for a sample of the performance

jkaster: casterle: "Is 100% ANSI C++ compliance your ultimate goal?" - That would be a very desirable thing for us

jkaster: gambit47: "will COM support be improved? an actual working and usable Type Library editor? etc. BCB6 COM support is not as good as BCB5 support, which is itself lacking anyway." - We're definitely looking at improving the type library support

jkaster: gambit47: "will TService be updated? BCB's version of TService has not had a single code update since BCB4. Services have many new features in Win2K/XP/2K3 that TService cannot utilize" - I don't know the answer to that one. Make sure it's in QualityCentral

jkaster: casterle: "Are you going to improve the debugger?" - We're going to spend some time doing bug fixes on this, and medium term wishlist items such as better STL container inspection. Definitely things we want to do.

jkaster: derbas: "Will any work be done to allow BCB components to be used in Delphi?" - It's not currently on our list of things we're likely to pull off.

jkaster: AlisdairM: "will there be any support for ISO library TR1" - not currently planned

jkaster: gambit47: "will BCB6 get any updates before the new C++ personality is released?" - probably not. We've put out 4 updates to BCB6 already. Right now, our focus is getting this pretty large array of new features into the next release.

jkaster: RonSawyer: "/ask: Perhaps this is out of place, but: Will these tools ever support CE or Pocket PC" - the most likely solution to that is going toward managed C++ and CF. That's a long term outlook.

jkaster: DavidS: "There are some bugs in the compiler / linker that exist in both BCB5 and 6. Will bug reports to QC regarding BCB5 be considered?" - We're going to take anything we can find in QC that applies to the current tools

jkaster: lsiefert: "How about code folding?" - that's on the list to do

jkaster: RonSawyer: " How will Longhorn impact the development tools? Will Delphi/Builder/etc work with Longhorn?" - yes. We'd be pretty silly if we didn't do that.

jkaster: AlisdairM: "any improvement for automated project builds - batch file support was actually dropped from Delphi 2005" - yes, we're taking a hard look at that.

jkaster: DamonC: "Will we get a C++-tuned project manager?" - we have a wide array of features customers have asked for over time, like pre and post build steps, source pools, build configurations, named option sets, etc. all these features are things we're looking at to see which we can most efficiently deliver.

aohlsson: There's a 30 second lag in the audio, so answers may appear written here before you hear them.

jkaster: AndrueC: "will there be an option to disable debugging into standard headers like the STL?" - It's not actually currently a separate requirement in CaliberRM. We can certainly look at that.
jkaster inserts the link http://www.borland.com/caliber/
We use CaliberRM to track product feature requirements

jkaster: ozelaya: "Is there going to be a option to just buy the C++ Builder Personality" - stay tuned to when we formally announce the next version of the Delphi/C#/C++ product

aohlsson: The 30 second delay is simply a function of streaming to a server, and you getting the stream off of it. It's probably built-in buffering so that hickups are eliminated as much as possible.
jkaster: derbas: "Will anything be done to reduce executable size?" - Outside of including the dinkumware STL, we don't have anything on the plate right now

jkaster: derbas: "Any improvement in converting projects to new version -- this has always been problematic." - yes, we'll work on that

jkaster: drbob42: "when we see the C++Builder personality in the Delphi (BDS) IDE, will that mean a Win32 or a .NET C++ personality? (or both? ;-)" - additional work will happen for .NET after this Win32-supporting release

jkaster: frasersof: "will the next C++builder be .NET like Delphi 2005?" - the IDE is going to be the same, with enhancements, that we shipped for Delphi 2005

jkaster: antivari: "What will be the final replacement for QReport" - Crystal Reports and Rave

jkaster: DamonC: "Any plans to improve the math performance of compiled code?" - notin this release

jkaster: derbas: "Is any work being done to fix Quality Central, or will we have endless beta...?" - in 1999, we said that all of BDN would be constantly in development.

jkaster: antivari: "will the overall project management be easier, like changing the file names/paths/classes from the IDE?" - yes, we're going to spend a fair amount of time improving options configuration

jkaster: antivari: "Will the TImage be enriched with some new image formats?" - That's a question for the VCL team

jkaster: nux: "does borland take Linux serious? should we rather try Kylix or rather vcl.net through mono" - in the world of Linux, we continue to try to figure out how to make a business of producing tools for Linux. Right now, we're focusing on the Kylix community project, and FreeClx.
jkaster inserts the following link: http://freeclx.sourceforge.net

jkaster: drbob42: "are you considering to include IntraWeb for C++Builder?" - yes, that certainly could work since the VCL designer will work with C++

jkaster: derbas: "Any work being done to allow Borland C++ products to be used for drivers, like in the old days <G>?" - yes, we'll do work on this to make sure you can actually do this

jkaster: antivari: "Will the docking system finaly be easy to implement?" - anotherVCL question

jkaster: DamonC: "Will we get GDI+ support? (Which natively supports other image formats.)" - you'll get the native support through C++, but not sure about additional VCL wrappers for it

jkaster: gambit47: "up-todate API headers and libraries?" - yes!

jkaster: casterle: "The help in D2005 is lacking. Will this be improved when the BDS w/BCB is released?" - we're looking at XML documenation generation for C++ as well. this will improve

Watch for a chat on the documentation for Delphi 2005. That information will apply.
jkaster inserts the link http://bdntv.borland.com/chat.html

jkaster: cviavatte: "are You considering to include a Profile for C++ personality?" - ifwe do anything for a profiler, it will be via a bundle, such as VTune or something. That's a product management decision

jkaster: JimDodd: "Will the examples provided with Builder be updated?" - yes

jkaster: AlisdairM: "how far has Delphi changed since Delphi6, placing additional requirement for C++ support?" - the changes that have been made to Delphi, such as namespace support, but that shouldn't affect the C++ interfaces as well. The enumerator support is all internal.

jkaster: AlisdairM: "Will CodeGuard be supported?" - We're looking at it.

jkaster: derbas: "Has memory management been improved (in relation to BCB5)?" - We haven't gotten any big changes there right now.

jkaster: casterle: "When BCB is included in BDS, will this make 3rd party component development easier?" - Davidi: Having one environment that's the same in all its features for 4 different languages should definitely make this easier.

jkaster: JimDodd: "Four languages? Delphi, C#, C++ and Java?" - that'sjust counting Delphi (native) and (.NET) as two

jkaster: DavidS: "I noticed some memory leaks in the VCL in BCB5/6. Will that be improved?" - report them in QualityCentral

jkaster: roddy: "Will the DFM file formats be broadly similar to BCB5/6?" - yes

jkaster: henningd: "Will be full support for the make tool be part of the next BCB generation?" - yes. there will still be command-line compilers and so on. We may support exporting to make file

jkaster: DamonC: "Will we still need Delphi source code to use Delphi components in BCB?" - yes

jkaster: kgc: "Any thoughts about supporting distributed compiling for large products (a la distcc)? Or related project management improvements?" - not currently on the plans

davidi: djones: "This is the kind of interaction we desperately needed from Borland. Thank you." - keep feeding back to us and we'll continue the conversations. Thank you!!!

jkaster: AlisdairM: "will there be support for CVS in the IDE (I am presuming StarTeam!)" - yes, through SCC API

jkaster: djones: "Will there still be a BPR2MAK tool, even if the IDE doesn't export make files?" - I don't know, but I'll take a look

jkaster: Milsoft: "Will CORBA be supported in the new ide" - yes, absolutely

jkaster: oliverb: "Will there be better support for mixed language programming" - we're not doing any specific features for mixed language programming except for project management level features

jkaster: AlisdairM: "will there be Borland Together support for UML?" - We're looking at that for the modeling part of the product. We don't know what degree of integration we'll get there yet

jkaster: AlisdairM: "is there anything we as the community can do to help Borland deliver a high quality product?" - put things into QC, give us really good examples that show what the problem is, ask to field test, then really beat on the product

jkaster: Milsoft: "Will we have one ide where we can use C++ and C#" - that's our goal. Delphi, C++, and C# development in one IDE

jkaster: nux: "why not make a babelcode to convert c++ builder to c#" - After CodeDOM support for C++ is available, this is feasible

jkaster: derbas: "Has Borland not yet learned that "when it's ready" isn't a viable answer anymore?" - We're trying to tell you as much as we can about the development we're doing. The challenge of exact dates is a challenge we always have. We will strive to hit any dates we announce.

jkaster: djones: "Where you've said, "we'll look into it", when/where will we be see the eventual answers? Hopefully, we don't have to wait until a release to get the answer!" - We'll update you whenever we can

jkaster: DamonC: "Will there be BCB-specific tracks at this year's BorCon?" - Davidi: yes, we'll cover C++. I still don't have a date, but we're getting very close to announcing a date and location, in the Q4 timeframe.

jkaster: AlisdairM: "will licensing be very different from BCB6?" - It will (probably) be the named user licensing we have today

jkaster: JimDodd: "Where are the blogs for the C++ team?" - DevRel will get the C++ team members to start or extend their blogging
jkaster inserts the following link: http://blogs.borland.com

jkaster: antivari: "Can we expect some more Tools (besides Image Editor, DBExplorer, ...) to be included in the product?" - noplans to expand the tools unless it's a third paty bundle

aohlsson: casterle: "Will you announce the blogs in the nontech newsgroup?" - Yes

jkaster: AlisdairM: "can we split IDE options/history out of the project files, so source control is easier" - huh. yeah, I see what he's saying. Not currently planned, but I'll talk to the product manager guys about that.

jkaster: pgustav: "This may have been asked (joining late), but will be Delphi VCLs be allowed to used by C++ Develoers. Inversely will (one day) C++ VCLs (for .nET) be able to be used by Delphi Devs" - please listen to the replay for this answer. All VCL updates will be available to C++ customers

davidi: casterle: "How frequently can we expect status updates and additional chats?" - wewill talk to the C++ / Delphi / C# team and see what schedule we can create.

jkaster: RaphNeve: "Why does BCB1 compile /so much/ faster than BCB5 ?" - there are 2 answers to that: 1) for starters, in BCB 5 and 6, we introduced more components that are available for the user and standard pre-compiled headers for those. 2) in BCB6, there is an egregious bug with a documented fix for this
See http://tinyurl.com/5n74e for more information

davidi: Milsoft: "How would we purchase C++ Builder? Would we have to purchase Delphi?" - stay tuned for product announcements, packaging, pricing, etc as we get closer to ship time

jkaster: BigStew: "Will the type library importer finally be fixed in the BDS personality?" - yes, answered already

aohlsson: AlisdairM: "will my name appear next to all my question in the transcript, I seem to be hogging the floor!" - Yes :)

jkaster: djones: "Where can we submit wish list items for the new product?" - QualityCentral. Put feature suggestions in there.
jkaster inserts the following link: http://qc.borland.com
jkaster: and solicit votes from community members

jkaster: roddy: "QC: file them for Delphi or BCB??" - BCB

jkaster: AlisdairM: "if we want improved image editors etc., would Borland be open to community submissions?" - yes, definitely. Troy Kitch is the product manager

jkaster: DamonC: "Will editor settings (e.g., indent spacing) be project-specific as in BCBX?" - thiswould be a good IDE request for C++Builder

jkaster: nux: "where can i find the docs for: "in BCB6, there is an egregious bug with a documented fix for this"" - we'll add the URL to the transcript

aohlsson: DamonC: "Thanks guys--this chat is much appreciated!!!" - Thanks for tuning in!

jkaster: casterle: "Will the component palette include wildcard searches?" - not sure

jkaster: DavidS: "I like to mention that I really appreciate your focus on quality for the next release. I think BCB5/6 is still a great product except some critical bugs in the current linker / compiler." - thanks very much

jkaster: AlisdairM: "So where is Bruneau hiding?" - He's working!

davidi: kgc: "This may be too forward-looking, but what kind of tools might come out of the TeraQuest acquisition?" - We will try to schedule audio chats with the TeraQuest team as soon as possible.

jkaster: roddy: "Will delphi projects now be able to easily use C libraries such as freetype?" - send me email to get this question answered

Public chat

Welcome to the moderated Borland Community Chat!
You are allowed to speak freely with everyone in this lower window. In the upper window you'll find all messages written by moderators and invited speakers.

jthurman: Popular place to be.
frasersof: hi mike #1
jthurman: That was fun.
MikeMarge: hi
LoriOlson: who picked elvis? jkaster: I did!
frasersof: elvis(some one who is older than me)
oliverb: Elvis is moderating when he finishes this song
casterle: I just heard a mike check a moment ago...didn't sound like Elvis
AndrueC: I've never been a fan of Elvis but it beats the Jazz we used to get on telephone 'hold' years ago :)
frasersof: NTL does Shakatak - not too bad
mitov: Hi David!
casterle: This music's gonna put me to sleep
cviavatte: I live in Italy, my date is 01 February, and my time is 20.19 (19.19GMT): I want discuss the C++Builder
DavidS: Hihi
frasersof: zzzzzzz
oliverb: Elvis didn't die, he wrote C++ Builder
drbob42: Elvis has left the building...
DavidS: Did he?
ozelaya: i dont mind listening to elvis before some good news on C++ Builder...lol
MikeMarge: with there be an audio feed too?
cviavatte: C++Builder Live Audio Chat with Eli Boling Tuesday, February 1, 2005, 11:15AM PST (1915Z)
cviavatte: where is Eli Boling?
oliverb: Is it Eli or Elivs?
cviavatte: Ok, hi Eli
mitov: Will we see updated more ANSI compatible C++ compiler?
bmcgee: mitov: use the ASK button
gambit47: hi damon
DamonC: Hi Gambit!
doychin: hi mitov. Nice to see another Bulgarian here finally ;-)
mitov: Well, I mean I have been around for few years ;-)
doychin: I'm talking about the chats ;-)
doychin: I know you from the BCB newsgroups
mitov: I was listening to the Delphi 2005, but didn't post.
H^2: what is the link for the audio feed?
doychin: mms://bdntv.borland.com/chat
frasersof: in the VIP lounge above
antivari: I havent't tried any chat for 5 years. I hope I'll see this line when I press enter
doychin: use ask button to ask questions ;-)
doychin: or put /ask before the text of the question
AlisdairM: Rats, sent all my questions to the wrong chat room!
RaphNeve: loud and clear over in France !!
AlisdairM: Complaints in NGs that people can't get in, I will try to forward questions
jkaster: Thanks, Alisdair!
jthurman2: The open letter seemed to leave it open to go either way.
mitov: I have a COFF to BCB utility developed. Are you guys interested?
gambit47: maybe
jthurman2: "When it's ready" (tm)
mitov: I am using the utility and I am willing to share the code and experience with Borland!
RonSawyer: I can get in here AlisdairM, but cannot log onto the media
H^2: same here
DamonC: Will there be an audio recording?
JimDodd: There has been for other audio feeds.
DamonC: OK, thanks
RonSawyer: How long does it usually take for an answer? I have asked 3 questions and not seen one yet
RaphNeve: Wow, that /will/ be good !
RaphNeve: (refering to using Delphi components)
RonSawyer: There's one
RonSawyer: But my first one was skipped
RaphNeve: where?
cviavatte: The old BCB5 work in Longhorn?
RaphNeve: good question!
gambit47: there does seem to be a lit of a lag between the time a question is asked and when it is actually answered
RonSawyer: Yeah, and I guess that is understandable
oliverb: WIll there be a migration path for C++ code from Windows to C++ BUilder X
teechart: 30 second ! Ah, that's why !
cviavatte: If C++Builder personality is ready in 2007, I must work in my BCB5: it start in Longhorn?
drbob42: Who's talking about 2007?
drbob42: hi oblong!
DavidS: I think there are 3rd party components using / providing GDI+
DavidS: like DevExpress.com
cviavatte: Can the people view a beta version of C++ personality? (like Bravo before the BCB 1)
LoriOlson: pvcs is now perforce, john
DavidS: @AlisdairM: I don't know anything about SCC API. Do you think it'll be easy to use CVS in the IDE?
doychin: there is SCC modules for CVS so you just need such module which will allow you to integrate CVS into Delphi IDE
jthurman2: lol
AlisdairM: @DavidS: No idea myself, was hoping it would ship in the box <g>
LoriOlson: doychin, where do you find SCC modules for CVS?
oliverb: TortiseCVS integrates CVS at the folder level of Windows aking it transparent to all compilers
roddy: TortoiseSVN for subversion is really excellent.
DavidS: Well I still prefer WinCVS and CVSNT...
oliverb: TortiseCVS is the best for Windows because it is language transparent and compatible with all languages
teechart: TeamCoherence is great
gambit47: I tried to use TortoiseCVS once, and had problems with it
gambit47: I prefer TC as well
DavidS: I had them, too.
LoriOlson: i've used the TortoiseCVS and SVN clients and they are excellent, but i prefer IDE integration for my VCS.
gambit47: TC integrates with the BCB IDE
drbob42: announcing BorCOn's date in Q4? Oh wait, BorCon itself will be in Q4 ;-)
nux: yes, we need dates - we have clients to keep happy - like we are borlands client
doychin inserts the following link: http://www.pushok.com/soft_cvs_proxy.php
AlisdairM: Thanks Anders ;,)
drbob42: @cvivatte: I don't know what you mean: I expect the next release *this* year... 2005. (personally)
RaphNeve: thanks for the chat!
nux: thanks borland - you make me rich with your dev tools
cviavatte: Release, release, release
JimDodd: Thank you, Borland.
AlisdairM: <G> Thanks John
RaphNeve: goodbye one & all
AlisdairM: And thanks to all the Dev Rel team for arranging this, very much appreciated
kgc: Thanks for doing this, guys. Now get your butts back to work and finish this thing. ;)


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