VCL for Delphi 2005 with Seppy Bloom and Danny Thorpe
Listen to the audio replay.
This is a log of the chat room during the live audio chat from December 17, 2004 on
Delphi 2005 with Seppy Bloom and Danny Thorpe. They discuss the VCL and VCL for Microsoft.NET in Delphi 2005.
Note: This log is only the chat room
transcript. There is much additional information covered in the audio
replay that is not available in this chat log. For all previous and
upcoming live chats, see http://bdntv.borland.com/chat.html.
VIP Lounge
aohlsson: Feel free to ask any VCL Win32 and .NET
questions using /ask or the ask button.
aohlsson inserts the following link: http://qc.borland.com
dthorpe inserts the following link: http://homepages.borland.com/dthorpe/sbloom.JPG
jkaster: Ronald: "There are 3 VCL's, Win32,
.Net and Kylix. I think it is the natural tendancy of a libray to grow
closer to the underlying platform. And for crossplatform work you want
to keep as much as possible the same. How are you handeling this
dillemma?" - Seppy: For linux and Windows, we
focused on name compatibility. For VCL and VCL.NET, we have the same
underlying API, so it's a matter of handling message passing more,
but the underlying code is very similar. The underlying implementation
for CLX is radically different.
jkaster: Ronald: "I know it is probably to soon
to ask this, but how will generics influence the VCL, especially the
container classes, a new set of container classes?" -
Seppy: I think we'll look at the compiler support
for generics on both .NET and Win32. We want to maintain compatibility
between the two. We're not going to change it just to change
it.
jkaster inserts the following link: http://bdn.borland.com/article/0,1410,31886,00.html
jkaster: Using standard .NET controls in VCL .NET
applications with Delphi 8
jkaster: Ronald: "I missed the unit-test talk,
but this question also fits here. Is the VCL 'supported' with
unit-tests?" - First, watch for the unit-testing replay.
You should be able to unit test anything in VCL with our new unit
testing support.
Editor's note: Unit testing is supported for VCL.
The unit testing replay is available at http://bdn.borland.com/article/0,1410,32920,00.html
jkaster: you're welcome, holger. There's probably
some improvements on that in D2005
jkaster: holger: "Seppy, could you comment
if you plan to include the VirtualTreeview into the VCL (esp. for
.NET!), as it is already used by the IDE?" -
Seppy: I haven't heard anything but we have given
code changes back for it.
aohlsson inserts the following link: http://www.lischke-online.de/VirtualTreeview/VT.php
jkaster: livechat: "Serialization of VCL
classes. Do you have plans to make VCL classes such as TList
serializable? Marking them with [Serializable] attribute, so that they
can be used with such mechanisms as .NET Remoting. (QC 8096)"
- Danny: For .net remoting to fully marshal that class, it has to be
a descendant of MarshalByRef, which adds a lot of "weight" to
the class, so I'm a bit leery of making TList serializable for .NET
1.1. There are architectural changes for .NET 2.0 that might make this
more feasibile.
jkaster: holger: "I am having huge
problems including pure .NET components into VCL.NET applications.
Documentation is really limited. Could you perhaps write some short BDN
article, like somebody from Borland (I hope it was him) did for Client
Datasets?" - Seppy: We can look at putting some kind
of article together. Specifics would be appreciated.
jkaster: nickh: "Since the Avalon is
really a glorified version of what VCL has been doing for ten years,
what are the prospects for migrating the VCL to the Longhorn/Avalon
platform?" - seppy: that's definitely a research
item at this point. Danny: which means I would like very much to see it
and I've assigned the task to Seppy to find out.
jkaster: blx: "just a comment:
congratulations for the decision to include a cpersonality in future
Delphi-versions!" - thank you. it actually
wasn't any new decision on the part of the team, but
congratulations to our executive team for deciding to push forward on
it.
jkaster: davidi: and thank you, Co j
m + community, for your
valuable feedback on this request
jkaster: jkaster: "Did the new enumerator
syntax capability in Delphi 2005 drive any VCL changes?" -
Seppy: The pattern the compiler is looking for is the
IEnumerable interface or GetEnumerator method. And we added that to
several of the "list" controls. Danny: We didn't go whole
hog on this because we know generics are going to be coming, and we
want to use the best method for implementing this new technology for
both .NET and Win32
jkaster: GuestMe: "how long's Borland
VCL going to stay?" - Danny: As long as we can keep it
going, as long as customers are asking for it, as long as customers are
using it.
jkaster: livechat: "In your opinion is the
future of VCL still bright? Are there any talks of phasing out the VCL
in favor to more pure .NET with Winforns, or whatever comes after
Winforms? Do you feel good about VCL future?" - just
answered
jkaster: nickh: "What is a good answer
when a customer asks "Why should I use VCL.NET?"" -
danny: the strength of VCL for .NET is continuity across
platforms.
jkaster inserts the following link: http://bdn.borland.com/article/0,1410,31983,00.html
jkaster: Why VCL for .NET? - by Danny Thorpe
jkaster: blx: "Could borland encourage
third-party vendors to port their VCLWin32-components to VCL.NET
components? The lack of VCL.NET thirdparty components is a real
showstopper for single-source Win32/.NET-applications" -
david: we did briefings for all component vendors way back
before this product was released. They were given access to Delphi 2005
very early on. Some of it is just a matter of time. There are many
already available. We'll continue to encourage everyone. You should
also go to all your Win32 VCL component vendors and let them know you
want VCL.NET versions of them. Borland needs to continue putting out
quality .NET support so people will use our product on .NET, and that
will show the BTPs the market exists.
jkaster: nickh: "Many folks are saying
that Win32 and VCL/Win32 is getting the short shrift. Would you guys
all say how hard you are working on the Win32 side of things?"
- seppy: I think this release shows we added the same things
in Win32 that we did in .NET. We are maintaining parity. For .NET, that
was adding things already in Win32 for this release. danny: We also did
new features for Win32 in the compiler, at significant personal
effort.
jkaster: blx: "to danny: any news
regarding support for custom attributes in a future version of the
Win32-compiler?" - Danny: the custom attribute
syntax for Win32, yes for the syntax. The runtime retrieval of the
attributes is the challenge.
jkaster: GuestMe: "I'm planning on the
buy of D2005 and some of my applications are threaded. Is there any
change on *my* side working with threads with D2005 for dotNET? I ask
this to understand if it's feasible to keep one only codebase until
a switch is made necessary" - seppy: I'm not
aware of any issues. We did do some tinkering with the TThread class on
the .NET side so it's not identical to Win32. There's also
TWin32Thread. danny: we did make some language RTL changes to improve
that. Threading on the .NET side is much, much better than in the Win32
api.
aohlsson: COM is like smoking. Quit. If you never
started, don't. (Alain "Lino" Tadros)
jkaster: holger: "David, one example for
the things I cannot get to work in a VCL.NET app are the MySQL database
connection components. Because it's not visual, the Wizard that
converts components cannot find anything in the assemblies. For that
more documentation would be needed. May be Seppy could comment if one
has to write a wrapper for stuff like that." -
Seppy: I wasn't involved personally on the wrapper
side. It's definitely something we can look at documenting.
jkaster: holger: "If this is off-topic,
just ignore it. But as Danny is there: Do you have a time set for the
first D2005 patch that gets rid of the known annoyances. Maybe as a
xmas present? ;-)" - Danny: The team is working on bug
fixes. What we keep getting snagged on is getting versioning just right
on the install. We hope to have a public beta very soon.
jkaster: blx: "did you already start
working on the next delphi version, or are you currently in the
planning phase?" - seppy: yes, we're definitely
in the planning phase. Now is a good time to give us suggestions.
danny: you should focus on "things that only Borland can do"
for those suggestions. Like things to streamline the development
process, the compiler, code insight ideas, etc.
jkaster: abauer: "the public beta is only
for the D8 patch" - thanks for the reminder
jkaster: abauer: "The D'05 patch is
going to be a fully qualified patch" - thanks Allen
jkaster: blx: "assuming that there could
be a Win64-Delphi-compiler one day, how much effort to you see to bring
the VCL32 to Win64?" - Danny: our primary push is to
support .NET 64 bit support because that's most efficient
jkaster: blx: "regarding custom attributes
and other features: sometimes it wouldn't be necessary to integrate
it into the whole toolchain, I would be happy if only the compiler
would support it!" - danny: that's very nice,
but the compiler is only one very small piece of the product. The
feature "doesn't exist" if the whole IDE doesn't
support it.
jkaster: Serge_d: "Do you plan to sync
component sets between D2005 VCL and WinForms, for example
ErrorProvider (details are here
http://www.dragonsoftru.com?go=d7d8)" - seppy: we
can certainly investigate this.
jkaster: JoeH: "I heard that there was
little documentation for a 3rd party db vendor to produce a BDP driver
? If that is true, could that be improved, so we can port use our
legacy 3rd party db Delphi apps to ECO2 ?" - john:
we'll be providing this soon. Watch BDN for an announcement and
article.
davidi: holger: "David, regarding 3rd
Party components: If vendors just develop for VCL.NET it's just
Delphi. If vendors develop for WinForms it's for all languages,
thus bigger market opportunities..." - David: Yes I
understand this as an opportunity for 3rd party vendors. The Delphi
VCL.NET is also a large business opportunity.
dthorpe: blx: "things only borland could
do: the compiler and the debugger. Extensions such as Generics and
attributes for Win32, opening up interfaces that allow us to add custom
personalities .." - Danny: Yup.
dthorpe: blx: "when talking about Win64,
we should assume that we are talking about AMD64 and Intels compatible,
Itanium is dead (from a massmarket point of view)" - Danny:
There's more than just AMD64 and Itanium. There's also XSCALE,
ARM, and other more embedded processors
jkaster: nickh: "Any plans to add the
ability to do Datasnap servers in VCL.NET?" - John: Come to
next Monday's chat for the answer!
jkaster: Tjipke: "why are the non visual
components when dropped on a form so bad ('resized')"
- please clarify this
davidi: Tjipke: "icons have changed
between D7 and D2005 -> made smaller, but resized on form again:
look very bad" - Please put an entry in Quality Central for
this. Thanks.
dthorpe: thank you!
dthorpe: hi bruce
Public chat
Welcome to the moderated Borland Community Chat!
You are allowed to speak freely with everyone in this lower window. In
the upper window you'll find all messages written by moderators and
invited speakers. To submit a question, click on the ASK Button.
Woof: :( Im gonna miss most of this :(
Woof: Thanks :) I have to go down the chippy to get my
tea!
Woof: Guys - you should really look to adding regular
expressions to into a vcl component or 3.. that would rock.. rather
than Tregexpr :) (not that its a bad component)
GuestMe: TRegExpr doesn't meet your needs?
Woof: It does, but occasionally its odd on me
GuestMe: Liz, regular expressions are tough
Woof: Im a unix fan, I grew up on them
GuestMe: you don't only need to do a correct one, but a good
one
Woof: yup
Woof: I love it when you missout like one little bit and instead
of nice ness you have a big pile of goo. and no idea what happened
:)
GuestMe: cheers guy/girls, especially girls... and thank you Delphi R&D for so many years of coding happiness
:-)
Woof: see ya
Tjipke: thx
holger: thank you guys
JoeH: Thanks !
bmcgee: Thanks guys
