ADOExpress Live Chat Transcript from Nov 11th, 1999

By: Christine Ellis

Abstract: ADOExpress Live Chat Transcript from Nov 11th, 1999

ADOExpress Live Chat Transcript on Thursday, November 11, 1999

Subject: ADOExpress Live Chat Transcript

Chat Formatting Conventions

chatter 1

This is a question asked by a chat participant

speaker 1

This is an answer or message posted by a speaker

chatter 2

This is another question asked by a chat participant

speaker 2

This is another answer or message posted by a speaker

editor

This is an editorial comment

Chat Transcript from Thursday, November 11, 1999

Please note: Some of the text for this chat has been edited for clarity.

Chat User

Message

cellis

Welcome to today's moderated chat on ADOExpress!
Your moderator for today's event is:
David Intersimone - VP of Dev. Relations
The speaker(s) present at today's Delphi chat are:
Mark Edington - ADOExpress Architect
John Kaster - Developer Relations Manager
Steve Koterski - Delphi Technical Pubs
Ben Riga - Group Product Manager

cellis

Before we start with the chat, our lawyers ask us to post the following message: "Forward-looking statements, if any, made during this online discussion, including, but not limited to those concerning Inprise's future financial performance, product availability dates, and the potential features of or benefits to be derived from the company's products, will involve a number of uncertainties and risks, and actual events or results may differ materially. "Factors that could cause actual events or results to differ materially include, among others, the following: difficulties in integrating the operations and technology of Visigenic Software or other companies or technologies which the company may acquire, possible disruptive effects of organizational or personnel changes, shifts in customer demand, market acceptance of the companys new or enhanced products, delays in scheduled product availability dates, actions or announcements by competitors, software errors, general business conditions, and market growth rates in the client/server and Internet software markets, and other factors described in the companys S.E.C. reports on forms 10-K, 10-Q, 8-K, and the Inprise. . ."

cellis

This auditorium is currently quiet. Chat has been disabled to keep the noise down. You will not be able to see other users also logged into this auditorium. To ask a question, use /ask and type in your question.

orene

How do I use this tool?

jkaster

If you're talking about iChat, it appears you're using it. If you're talking about ADOExpress, you use the Delphi components to hook you up to ADO data sources.

orene

When is the next show ?

jkaster

If you're talking about chat, it has now started. The next one will be Nov 18th on the OpenTools API. If you're talking about trade shows, we'll be at Comdex in , and our Australia office is hosting a conference next week.

free2create

How come Borland stock is up 9.7 % today ?

jkaster

Maybe people are starting to think we might know what we're doing. :-)

cellis

This auditorium is currently quiet. Chat has been disabled to keep the noise down. You will not be able to see other users also logged into this auditorium. To ask a question, use /ask and type in your question.

Joey

What are the differences between using ADO and the regular data (BDE) components ?

jkaster

The main difference is the back-end data driver. There are components that hook up to the BDE APIs and the ADO apis, and there are TADOTable, TADOQuery, TADOStoredProc, and so on.

ecardenas

How is the feedback abou using ADO with Informix? Any suggestion of use?

medington

So far I haven't seen any. We didn't have much success using the Provider which comes from Merant here so we did not do much testing in house. Are you using informix with ADO (resubmit another question to answer).

danmark

What about changing an existing BDE project into one that uses ADO?

jkaster

This is currently a manual process, but the BDE components have equivalents in ADO for making this easier.

klumsy

Are there any bugfixes out for the ADO components that come with Delphi 5 yet?

briga

We have fixed some bugs. Why do you ask? {g} We will be posting some fixes today. Look for these on Code Central at community.borland.com

ecardenas

Have you tried the Beta Version of MSDAC 2.5? how it works with ADOExpress?

medington

Yes, and it works fine.

Joey

What are ADO data sources ? Examples ?

jkaster

ADO data sources could be OLE DB providers, connections to Excel, Access, SQL Servers, MAPI systems, and so on.

whawke

Will the ADO package I purchased (for professional version) of Delphi work with BCB4? Or the next version of BCB?

briga

The ADO package will not work with BCB4. When we release a version of BCB that is compatible with Delphi 5 packages it will work.

boudewijn

Is Borland going to supply more documentation on ADO?

skoterski

We document the ADOExpress components, not really focusing on ADO. We are open to expanding our ADOExpress documentation based on customer feedback in the newsgroups, chats, and so on.

rikonoc

Do you intend to resolve problem when using ADO with DBGrid to remove FatchAll ?

medington

Yes that is fixed in the informal patch I made available. You can find it at http://community.borland.com/codecentral, then search for ID 14080.

rikonoc

Why memory usage when using ADO is nearly 100% bigger then when I am using ODBCExpress??? (Measured by NT 4 Task manager: Mem Usage + VM Size)

medington

Difficult to say without doing some analysis.

th256

How does performance compare between BDE and ADO?

jkaster

Performance varies greatly, depending on the driver you're using, the database you're connecting to, and so on. There is no blanket answer to this.

ecardenas

How it compares ADOExpress with products like ADOnis?

medington

They offer fairly equivalent functionality.

ecardenas

Will we need a patch when MSDAC 2.5 will be released?

briga

We have been working with MDAC 2.5 for about a month (current beta) and it works great with ADOExpress.

dexheimerds

We are experiencing a lot of timeout issues using the ADO components. Can you tell us what we might be doing wrong (common problems, etc)?

medington

I suggest you post a question with a little more detail about the problem on the public ADO support forum.

elitedev

ADO being a simplicity layer on top of OLE DB, why were the ADO components designed to sit on top of ADO, and not directly on top of OLE DB? Would this not have saved one layer and increased performance/flexibility?

jkaster

ADO is more convenient to use, and MS actually recommended we use it instead of going directly to OLEDB. However, we did need to make some OLEDB calls for some information ADO was missing. Mark did present some information on OLEDB at our conference that's available on our conference CD, also.

elitedev

Are there plans to support the MDX extensions of ADO in a future version (possibly with integartion with the Descision Cube components)?

medington

I assume you mean ADOMD. This is something we will consider for the next release but integration with Decision Cube would be a very involved task.

dbhatia

Scott Strool from Inprise gave us an awesome demo with ADO talking directly to Excel and Word. However, it is not for the faint hearted, there are a lot of 'hidden' commands you have to be aware of, any demos or samples coming our way soon?

jkaster

Scott gave me an article on it we're getting ready to post on the community site. If I can find the time, I'll get it ready tomorrow.

mikepence

"Go .com yourself"? You have got to be kidding!

briga

It sure gets your attention though dosen't it. The intention of this campaign is just that -- to get attention. We have been quiet for too long. This campaign is a corporate one and the media placement is wide spread. You should start seeing these ads in high-level business areas like the Wall Street Journal (US, Europe and Asia) and Business Week. the follow-on campaigns will be more specific and eventually all of this will come down to product specific ads.

Joey

If developing with ADO, will the app.exe be the only file needed ? (i.e. no *.dll bde stuff) ?

medington

The machine must have the MDAC runtime installed as well. It's installed with IE5 and Windows 2000. Otherwise it's a separate install.

zbak

Is there a comparison chart contrasting ADO features, performance, etc. to the BDE or a list of pitfalls to avoid for the new ADO user?

jkaster

No, there are too many variables to do performance comparison. We are working on additional ADO-related articles for the community site.

ecardenas

About Informix: Yes, I've downloaded the Client SDK from Informix (using Intraware website), but I couln't configure the client, so i'm waiting for news and feedback from othe users.

medington

Does that include a native OLEDB Provider? Perhaps this would be a good subject to follow up in the public ADO support newsgroup.

ecardenas

How about support for the built-in XML features of ADO?

jkaster

We already have implemented ADO's XML support.

cellis

This auditorium is currently quiet. Chat has been disabled to keep the noise down. You will not be able to see other users also logged into this auditorium. To ask a question, use /ask and type in your question.

dbhatia

What is the best and fastest way to talk to an Access table, ADO or DAO? It is extremely slow to open and work with ACCESS .mdb file with DAO is ADO better?

jkaster

According to MS, you should use ADO to connect to Access.

mediastorm

What is the difference between creating the connections via the component view and the data diagram when creating a data module?

briga

The component view is exactly the same as the existing data module view we've had since Delphi 2. The new Data diagram view helps in a number of ways. It helps you to document and view your data in different ways. It gives you a entity-relationship view on your components. It also allows you to create 'connections' or relationships between components. If you do this, the changes are refleted in the component view. So, to answer your question, the new data diagram view is just another way to look at the component view.

cellis

Our speakers will get to as many questions as possible. If we don't provided answers to your questions in the timeframe for today's chat, we'll try to answer them afterward and include the answers in this chat's transcript which will be posted on our community site.

dexheimerds

We are using ADOExpress components inside MTS objects (yes true 3 tier architecture). We are having some issues with timeouts when doing large transactions. Where should we concentrate our efforts to find this problem (ado/mts/SQL7)?

medington

Make sure you are using TADODataSet and set the CommandTimeout property to an appropriate value.

bir

Would you recommend using ADOExpress for a website designed with Delphi and InterBase, or would the BDE or IBExpress offer a better solution?

jkaster

I would recommend using either BDE or IBX for connectivity to Interbase instead of ADO.

zbak

Any idea of how Delphi ADO applications might convert to the forthcoming Linux version of Delphi?

jkaster

Unless MS provides ADO for Linux, we don't anticipate providing ADO supporting components on Linux.

boudewijn

Where can I get information on improving performance? Editing 45 records using Jet 4 on a Access 2000 database takes 16 seconds.

medington

You might look at using the the batch update facility. This should have less overhead then updating each record individually. Set the LockType = ltBatchOptimistic and call UpdateBatch. You can also experiment with the CursorType/CursorLocation properties to see if you can find a faster combination.

mikepence

Anyone care to comment on the Finding of Fact?

jkaster

We don't really have an opinion on this. Also, this is supposed to be a technical chat. :-)

klumsy

This is off-topic but how long till Delphi for Linux? :)

jkaster

It will ship when it's ready. It's going well.

dbhatia

Since ADO for Linux may be MS dependent, what will be the native connection for Delphi? Will there be a BDE for linux along with SQL drivers?

jkaster

We are not planning on porting the BDE to Linux. We have other solutions we are working on for Linux data connectivity. Please see our general Delphi chat for other information.

mikepence

Given your cross licensing deal with the Redmond monopoly, will you be leaning more toward ADO than BDE in future development?

briga

We will continue to support the technologies that our customers express an interest in. ADO is a perfect example of this. We have a strong relationship with Microsoft and will contiue to support their initiatives. Look for further support of technologies (for example the interesting stuff in Windows 2000) in future products.
The BDE will not go away, as many customers continue to use and are dependant on it. As we move to other platforms (eg Linux) we will need a database technology that crosses platforms. ADO won't do this.

cellis

This auditorium is currently quiet. Chat has been disabled to keep the noise down. You will not be able to see other users also logged into this auditorium. To ask a question, use /ask and type in your question.

klumsy

In reagards to query #35, we are using Tadoqueries, and a connection thus the timeout.. surely it should use the timeout property of the connection object, right?

medington

No. ADOExpress uses the same semantics as ADO with regards to the CommandTimeout property. TADOQuery really should have had a CommandTimeout property but it wasn't included on TADOQuery because it's a BDE compatibility component. So currently you must use TADODataset if you want to control the CommandTimeout. We will add a CommandTimeout to TADOQuery for the next release.

cellis

We're almost out of questions. Please use the /ask command to propose your questions to the speakers.

dbhatia

BDE is very mature and allows a lot of tweaks for sessions, private directories etc. Can you provide us with the technical docs for similar functionality with ADO? MSDN is a maze and it's tough to find anything there.

skoterski

We are not planning on documenting ADO itself. We will be happy to increase the documentation on ADOExpress.

free2create

Posting the ADO Article sounds like something that one of John Kasters assistants could do, with all he does I hope he has assistants !?!

jkaster

David I is my assistant, and he's leaving for Australia today :-). Seriously, Charlie, David, Jason, JT and I are all working on getting more content on the web site, and also accepting articles from members of the community.

davidi

I'm editing the Scott Strool article while I moderate this chat. I will post the article to the community site before I leave for Australia :)

jkaster

DavidI, you're awesome!

corneliusd

Before the official chat session started, someone mentioned there were serious memory drains on their app when ADO was added. Is this more likely a development problem, or is it typical of an ADO app?

medington

So far I have not seen any reports of memory problems using ADO (other than the question posted here). I think that question just had to do with differences between ADO and ODBC.

boudewijn

Pls increase the documentation on ADOExpress. MS SDK documentation takes ages to read. Start with an intro plus explanation on the 3 programs includes with ADO.

skoterski

We are not planning on documenting ADO itself. We will be happy to increase the documentation on ADOExpress. If you have specific suggestions for ADOExpress documentation you'd like to see, please post it in the newsgroup or bug reporting page.

zbak

Are there sample applications in the ADOExpress addon package for Delphi 5 and if so what do they include or where can I find out?

jkaster

Yes, there are demos that ship with Delphi. There are some on CodeCentral, also, I believe.

mediastorm

OT: There is a link on the Borland site to get updated files for Installshield Express it takes you to the wrong place. Does anyone know where updated ISX files can be found for InstallShield Express 2.x?

briga

I was not aware of this. Please send me (briga@inprise.com) the page on our site and the url that is broken and I'll make sure it gets corrected. In the future, if you should find any broken links or problems with web pages, be sure to drop a line to the webmaster.

timk2

When attempting to connect to remote Access db on a IIS server, how do i setup the connection string?

medington

Not sure if I fully understand what you are asking, but if you are building an ISAPI server then you would setup the connection to the database the same as any other client.

dexheimerds

Can you give us some good references for ADOExpress (web sites, articles, books, sample apps, etc.)?

jkaster

We're working on additional material that will be posted on http://community.borland.com. You should search CodeCentral and look at the Delphi demos directory as well.

corneliusd

Is cost the main reason to choose ADO over Client/Server or N-Tier, or are the technical advantages?

medington

ADO *is* Client/Server and N-Tier.

seaview

What is dotCommers?

briga

dotCommers refers to the idea of .com'ing (i.e dot com) your business. We want to help you do that so we are the dot-com-ers. It is also written in such a way to be read like e-commerce.

Hmm... Mee...

Is there ADO Express student license?

briga

There is currently no student license for ADOExpress.

mikepence

Have you considered making ADOExpress and other VCL components open source?

jkaster

We have been discussing how OpenSource will benefit our customers. We haven't made a decision on it yet.

bir

On the lines of the memory problems discussed in #53... Do you think the architecture of ADO makes it more memory intensive than ODBC? If so, then if you must decide between using ADO and ODBC for accessing a database, why would one chose to use ADO?

medington

There are a number of sound technical reasons for choosing ADO over ODBC, not the least of which is the fact that ADO is the future of data access from Microsoft. There may well be differences between the memory requirements of ADO vs. ODBC. However, as far as I know there is nothing which significant enough to deter someone from using ADO.

timk2

I chose MS Remote as provider, http://servername.com as Data Source, and ODBC alias name as Location, but i get errors when choosing Test Connection from the Data Link properties.

medington

If the TADOConnection is in your server you don't want to choose that provider. Let's follow up on this in the public ADO support newsgroup. I can help you get it going.

mikepence

When is the beat-up-on-marketing-guys-like-Ben chat?

briga

This was requested at the last chat and we are planning it now. It looks like it will be on Thurs., Dec. 16th.
This gives me enough time to complete my training. :-)

dbhatia

All Borland folks, thank you for taking the time out to host these chat sessions. It is a wonderful means of getting to know the technology a little more in detail and having direct interaction with the product developers

jkaster

Thank you very much! We're glad the community is finding this valuable.

cellis

If you have any new questions, please get them in the queue now. We only be accepting new questions for one more minute.

br1

If I want to use Access 2000 databases is ADO my only option or will there be a update for the BDE

skoterski

MS changed the access from the Jet engine for Access 2000 to ADO, which really requires using ADO to connect to Access 2000. That makes BDE support for it extremely unlikely.

zbak

Ive heard that there is a way to connect to a remote SQL7 server over the net with ADO. If so how is this done?

medington

Not sure what you mean by a "remote" SQL7 server. You can use the ConnectionString proerty editor to help you make the connection.

franz

i have seen an ADO sample somewhere using datashape (or something like this) to speed up retrieving master/detail recordsets. Is that possible with ADOExpress, too?

jkaster

Yes, see the Delphi demo directory Delphi5DemosAdoShape

cellis

We will no longer be accepting new questions for the speaker(s). We will continue to answer the questions that have already been accepted.

Hmm... Mee...

I know that Mark E. posted an unofficial ADO patch but when the official one will be made available? Will it be part of D5 update pack or something on its own? If last is true, then will ADOExpress have more frequent updates than the rest of D5 components? Thanks.

medington

There will be a separate update pack for ADOExpress. The same updates will also be included in a general D5 update (for the Enterprise version). No release dates have been announced, but we are currently testing them.

mikepence

How many downloads of the Delphi demo version so far...er...with ADO being built in and all?

briga

We are very happy with the number of downloads. I don't have the numbers for this week but we had over 9000 in the first week.

mikepence

Does use of ADO preclude use of Oracle8i specific features, like objects and nested tables?

jkaster

Until an OLEDB provider has support for Oracle 8i's nested tables and abstract data types, you won't be able to use it with any ADO solution. Nested tables SHOULD be supportable, since data shapes in ADO are similar.

davidi

the Creating a Spreadsheet Viewer using ADOExpress article will appear at http://community.borland.com/article/1,1410,20066,00.html

davidi

I just posted it a few minutes ago, it may take a little time to appear on the community site

jkaster

applauds fervently.

cellis

cheers enthusiastically.

briga

shakes his head.

cellis

Thank you for joining us today!
The auditorium will be unhushed shortly so that you can resume general chat.
Please join us for future Delphi Team chats. The schedule of upcoming Live Delphi Chats can be found at http://community.borland.com/article/1,1410,10208,00.html.
Hope to see you here again!

briga

bows gracefully.

jkaster

nods solemnly.

briga

See you all at the next chat. Thanks for joining us today.


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